Out Before Orders

[[DtK] [V] Trustworthy Trigger]

Ok then, would someone please be as kind to give me the official stance on this. I have failed to find any rules relating to whether this makes you a rebel, whether you need to be named individualy, etc. There was nothing in the rule clarifications, rules that may or may not be in the MOTD but are still rules and none in the !motd itself.

So... My questions.

If you are out before orders, what CAN and CANNOT be done about this. I've played my whole JB career by the rules that you cannot be a rebel if you're out before orders unless.

1. You are in gunroom
2. You are spotted knifing or in a vent
3. You attack a CT

So, I was playing today and decided to chill outside of my cell for the first 45 seconds or so of the map, then I decided to rejoin the game, I was immediately shot at by a CT who then stopped once they realised I'd been out of cells before orders, Only to have mic spam and then an AWP to the head from Mr. Purplicious himseslf... So, an admin believes they know the rules, and they believe it's completely different to the rules I've been following; Which leads me to this.

Mr. Purple seems to believe that "out before orders only lasts until a certain point" however when there are NO rules to be found on the topic whatsoever than this explanation is not only VAGUE, frustrating.

[[DtK] [Jedi] firtvid20]

Well, if you do join the game and they already said an order ("all Ts go to the bottom of main cell stairs" for example), then you could be killed for delaying.

[[DtK] [V] Trustworthy Trigger]

Don't be so clear cut on this, I need more discussion. Why is it then that you wouldn't be shot IMMEDIATELY after being found out of cells, you are delaying the round by not staying in cells until they open when you think about it. This is all opinions so far, I need someone like Rowdy to tell me the EXACT rules.

[[DtK] [V] Stompy]

1) Mr Purple does know the rules, whether he broke them is another matter,

You were out before orders = freeday until ordered (which includes T's take one step out and freeze I guess) you should let them know you were out before that order and so it
is invalid to you I guess, however, if he said "all T's when the cells open, go to the bottom of main cell stairs, that's an order that would apply to you.

On the discussion point: I guess if he said "all T's in cells, when the cell doors open .......... That order would be invalid and so if you were killed until a legitimate order came through it'd be a freekill. If he then said all T's on the main cell stairs/ wall opposite cells etc, go to bhop then it's invalid for you, but if he says all T's go to bhop the you gotta go.

But from my experience, it's rare for anyone to order the entire group by "all t's on the wall opposite cells", everyone says "all T's".

So in conclusion, if your out before orders, you can have a freeday until individually ordered to come back or a legitimate order is given where you are part of the group ordered (all T's) rather than a specific set of t's (all T's on the wall)

Just felt like waffling on

Sent from Stompy's Carrier Pigeon via Angro's governmental department of Eletronic Mail Filtering & Tissue Supplies

[[DtK] [Jedi] Muffbag]

So let me get this straight.

• You deliberately hit a vent or window or whatever you want to call it, to get out of your cell before everybody else (obvious rebel is obvious). Regardless of your claim to have just been "chilling" for 45 seconds or so before actually moving to do anything in the round, you had already rebelled.
• You decided to apparently change your mind and make your way to rejoin the round, but you were caught having already done the wrong thing before you made it back.

This kind of thing is why there are so many rules on the server in the first place, because of people nit picking with rules etc.


It should be as simple as this:


You follow orders that aren't absolutely ridiculous, you won't get shot.
If you decide at any time not to follow the orders (including the given one when you "wake up" in your cell at the start of the round, you get caught and you get shot.


Instead there are so many loopholes already there and people still trying to poke more to make it more boring.


We have rounds starting and stopping starting and stopping because someone has decided to try and be cheeky and go against clearly given orders, claiming that it's within the rules JUST to hold up the round and see how far they can get without getting shot and or muted/kicked/banned by an administrator.


Honestly, if you're out of your cell before the cells are actually opened, then you obviously have no intentions of playing in the round itself and more than likely plans to get to a weapon to start shooting CT's, then you should be allowed to be shot without any question.

[[DtK] [V] Stompy]

So let me get this straight.

• You deliberately hit a vent or window or whatever you want to call it, to get out of your cell before everybody else (obvious rebel is obvious). Regardless of your claim to have just been "chilling" for 45 seconds or so before actually moving to do anything in the round, you had already rebelled.
• You decided to apparently change your mind and make your way to rejoin the round, but you were caught having already done the wrong thing before you made it back.

This kind of thing is why there are so many rules on the server in the first place, because of people nit picking with rules etc.


It should be as simple as this:


You follow orders that aren't absolutely ridiculous, you won't get shot.
If you decide at any time not to follow the orders (including the given one when you "wake up" in your cell at the start of the round, you get caught and you get shot.


Instead there are so many loopholes already there and people still trying to poke more to make it more boring.


We have rounds starting and stopping starting and stopping because someone has decided to try and be cheeky and go against clearly given orders, claiming that it's within the rules JUST to hold up the round and see how far they can get without getting shot and or muted/kicked/banned by an administrator.


Honestly, if you're out of your cell before the cells are actually opened, then you obviously have no intentions of playing in the round itself and more than likely plans to get to a weapon to start shooting CT's, then you should be allowed to be shot without any question.

tbh this reminds me of Haarley's ct ban appeal.

No matter how obvious it is the they came through a vent / were knifing a vent, unless you SEE it or SEE them entering or exiting a vent, you cannot kill them. (thought you of all people would have known that, not having a go at you though).

Some players are interested in re-joining the round, some aren't. Don't jump the gun and say EVERYONE isn't.

The wise thing to do would be to declare you were out before orders, can you rejoin in the round.

[[DtK] [Jedi] Muffbag]

tbh this reminds me of Haarley's ct ban appeal.

No matter how obvious it is the they came through a vent / were knifing a vent, unless you SEE it or SEE them entering or exiting a vent, you cannot kill them. (thought you of all people would have known that, not having a go at you though).

Some players are interested in re-joining the round, some aren't. Don't jump the gun and say EVERYONE isn't.

The wise thing to do would be to declare you were out before orders, can you rejoin in the round.

If you read my previous post again, you will hopefully see that I was merely making a suggestion to solve the problem raised in the original post.

Or would you prefer EXTRA rules added onto the server?

[[DtK] [V] Stompy]

If you read my previous post again, you will hopefully see that I was merely making a suggestion to solve the problem raised in the original post.

Or would you prefer EXTRA rules added onto the server?

The rules are fine, technically he is rebelling as soon as he dis-obeys an order that applies to him. So if T's are ordered to go somewhere with "All T's" then it applies to him.


Is there any disagreeance with the above statement and the reasons for it?

[[DtK] [Jedi] Mr. Purplicious]

Let me shed some light on the situation that this "kill" took place. The round was a couple of minutes in on the campus map. All the T's were in a stack half way across the map and i was standing on top of the cage.

I am 100% sure that an order was given which said "all t's go to my spray and freeze". After that I see trigger standing there in front of cells, and after getting shot he stated that he was out before orders, so the CT stops shooting him.

After he stopped I shot him. Now the main reason for me shooting him is this:
- If you are out before orders, it does not mean a freeday for the whole round. It simply means you are exempt until an order is given which is valid to you, E.G.: "All T's go to my spray and freeze"

If you come back after 'being out before orders' and not having followed orders with me on CT, expect to be shot for rebelling during the round.

[[DtK] [Jedi] TC_TopCat]

I think Trigger was after a general case, which I will attempt to provide.

*Trigger gets out of cells at start of round*
All Ts, when the cell doors open, take one step out and freeze. <- Trigger is exempt. He is not in a cell.
*time passes*
All Ts go to my spray. <- Valid order for ALL T's. If Trigger doesnt go, he is a rebel.

So Trigger, I tend to believe there IS a 'certain point' where the T can stop doing what they want. I believe that point should be the case where the cell doors are open and a valid order is given to all Ts who are currently meant to be out of their cell.
Hope that kind of clarify's everything- thats how I tend to play.
However I barely shoot anybody when I play and usually let all rebels come back :P.

[[DtK] [LM] Rowdy]

Pretty much everyone who has commented here hit the nail on the head, there needs to be no rule on this as it is common sense, if your out before cells open fine, but once you ignore a valid order you are a rebel. I don't see why we need a rule for every conceivable situation, when some common sense will cover 90% of them.

[[DtK] [T] Yellow]

if you're out of your cell and then 'chilling' for a while, after the warden has given the next set of orders. you should be following them or else you'll be classified as a rebel.

[[DtK] [N] Rain]

Off topic: Half the people ON the whitelist go CT and dont know this rule.

[[DtK] [V] Angro]

Rain read what people have said than edit your post...

[[DtK] [V] Trustworthy Trigger]

Case closed thanks mostly to Becca, Purp and Top. I can clearly understand which orders would be invalid for a T out of cells and whhich would not.

Obviously, "When cell doors open, take one step out and freeze" - Invalid order due to already having taken step, or multiple steps out of cell"

Whilst, "all T's face the back of your cells for a guncheck" - I suppose, I could still follow this rule, and any rule after this which would make me a rebel.

The only other point that I was interested in was the loophole which most people seem to use (and I have assumed for quite some time) which is that once out of cells before they are opened you're supposedly meant to be named individualy before you can be ordered back into the mainstream of the game.

From my understandings now, this is only the case if the cell doors have not been opened yet? as before that period you could not order "all T's" to freeze as some would be in there cells.


MY FINAL QUESTION - Is it acceptable to use the command "All t's currently out of cells, return to the main cell area with no guns immediately or you'll be considered a rebel" or something along these lines such as "all t's currently out of cells, freeze" ... as this does not reffer to the T's in cells, even though the cell doors are closed this could be acceptable from my current understanding of the rule.


EDIT: Also, Rowdy, I still don't think this is just "common sense" you could say that about a lot of things but the reality in JB is that we have a very large and very strict set of rules and this can cause some confusion. I think this thread has been benefficial to me, and maybe others viewing it.

[[DtK] [Jedi] JasperSnail]

I'm glad this matter has been settled. As for my oppinion, no its not a rule anymore, hence it WAS a rule.
Most of the regulars or people who played with the old set of rules know this... let's say "house rule" and follow it.
So once you play enough you generally start to get the hang of the rules.

As for your final question. I don't think it's ever acceptable to order T's as a group to:
1. Not have a gun on them.
2. Order all T's out of cell to come back.

A T outside before cells are open AND orders have been given must be spotted and named.
That's why you can't say "All Ts freeze" if cells are still closed, because its an invalid order, and wouldnt apply to anyone.

[[DtK] [M] Dodo_Man]

Good to see it clarified, I never really knew the admins view on this, and also if you do get out before orders and a CT doesn't see you, why would you just chill or whatever go grab a gun or something, not wait for a ct to find you and claim that you were out before orders so you're exempt from being killed!

[[DtK] [V] Trustworthy Trigger]

Good to see it clarified, I never really knew the admins view on this, and also if you do get out before orders and a CT doesn't see you, why would you just chill or whatever go grab a gun or something, not wait for a ct to find you and claim that you were out before orders so you're exempt from being killed!

It was campus, and the only place you can go is straight past the view of all the CT's anyway haha so I waited for a bit, then got bored.

[GoldernDeagle]

i hate this a ct will just see and shoot u wen u asked to come bak or be forgiven

[edszke]

then don't come back straight away, study the most played maps and then when your out before orders find some guns and then come back and kill the cts


Sent from your mums phone cos she lets me use tapatalk after I smash her