bhopping on server 4

[[DtK] [V] SpAc3y]

Can we seriously look into removing the bhopping rules from server 4? All it has done is restrict the movement of good players and bhoppers in favour for the players who aren't that good. Making the game easier for the players who don't want to or cant get better. In my opinion there should never be any rules against movement that is part of the game. Even tho admins are currently pretty relaxed about it. There's still that lingering cloud of guilt for doing what comes so natural to some of us. Bhopping also doesn't cause a substantial amount of team killing either, and the rules against it don't seem to have reduced the team killing either. there's loads of other things that are just part of playing that cause loads of teamkills like stacking on corners, and many more. we'll never be able to stop teamkilling. All we can do is just remove the ones who do it on purpose.

I don't know how to start a vote in the forums otherwise I would. Can we take this post as the start of one anyways? I would honestly feel so let down by the dtk community if this thread just gets shut down immediately. I believe this is a serious topic that needs to be addressed professionally.

SpAc3y / rangdang (no screen)

[[DtK] [V] SpAc3y]

Although I don’t agree with changing the friendly fire on server 4. We may need to change it. I will be in full support of trialing different things. Who knows. Maybe it’s already running the best it will if the bhopping rules are removed. Maybe every other thing we try will just result in lots of team wounding but not killing. Maybe turning friendly fire off will decimate the player base or maybe it won’t. I’m open to trying anything once

[BIBS]

Hi All.

I vote for leave as is.

I feel that this server and game mode lends itself to a wider range of skill sets. What makes this server fun is the community and not the competitiveness. When you allow what I believe to me a more advanced manipulation of the physics all we are doing is creating an environment that does not cater to the wider community.

Knifing for a lot of people on the server is hard enough, lets not automatically give it to the 'bunny hoppers'. I know that if there was a server where it was impossible for me to compete I would probably not spend a lot of time there. Whilst it sounds contradictive to what my initial statement is, let me explain a little further. Whether you are here to compete or just play the concept of having a chance can make the game exciting. I feel 'Bunny Hopping' takes that away for some players.

My vote is simply one of inclusion to make the server more attractive for newer players to make sure the server is growing rather than stagnant. Let's leave the advanced physics and meta strategies in vanilla and keep this server chill.

[[DtK] [S] Krezand]

Bhop scripts/cheats shouldn't be a worry. The chances of someone bhop scripting on a GunGame server (of all the servers) is pretty slim especially with a lot of the small maps that are on the server. Bhop cheats haven't been much of a concern at all for other servers, it absolutely should not be a concern on a gungame server.

My vote is simply one of inclusion to make the server more attractive for newer players to make sure the server is growing rather than stagnant.

This kind of focus on only one side of the playerbase is exactly why the other side is upset, because they haven't actually been considered for. It is only more attractive to a certain group of new players, many new players have been turned away because of how bhopping has been treated on the server.

What is even the real reason why bhopping isn't allowed? The teamkilling reasoning doesn't make sense.

This is something that has been raised constantly by many players, there has been no explanation as to how bhopping leads to more teamkilling. Because of this lack of clarity, of course it's going to lead to unhappy players.

Bhopping is allowed, just not on small maps where the inevitable team wounding/killing happens.

This is exactly why players are upset. Bhoppers are harder to teamkill so the special attention that bhopping has received makes absolutely zero sense unless there are ulterior motives that have already been revealed in this very thread.

If someone causes a teamkill, it falls under the TK rule. And that's all well and good...
https://www.dying2kill.com.au/showth...-Clarification

The compromise was that it comes under the tk rule even though it already did.

So why does this thread even exist? Why is there special attention being given to bhopping if it falls under a very basic rule of the server?
Why is there special attention being given to small maps? Bhoppers should be easier to kill on small maps and harder to teamkill on every single map.
Can i once again repeat myself and say that bhoppers are harder to teamkill?
This is not a compromise. All it does is that it only creates enough vagueness so that bhopping can be policed and limited as much as possible, rather than taking action when a teamkill actually occurs, otherwise that thread would not exist. What defines a small map? Once again, vagueness.

Why are we telling players to not bhop because it leads to teamkilling, yet i see absolutely no one telling people to stop running through players? Even though that is a MUCH bigger issue on the server? Maybe because people have accepted that it's a part of the game, just like how bhopping has always been a part of the game....

As an aside, the same group of players that don't like bhopping overlap with the knifing sub-community of the server. Do you guys not realise how easy it is to accidentally teamkill you knifers as opposed to someone bhopping? It is extremely easy. As far as im aware, no one complains about knifers leading to teamkilling because once again its a part of the game, but for some reason bhopping is this huge issue and shouldn't be a thing on the server even though teamkilling bhoppers is way harder than a normal moving player.

Completely opposite there. If you were a good player you wouldn't need to bhop to begin with.

most good players know how to bhop and do bhop.

It's quite clear from this thread that there are probably a good chunk of players that are upset at bhoppers for reasons completely unrelated to teamkilling. Interesting....

[[DtK] [JA] squat]

I think the point is this, We have a friendly server where average players can come and have a good time with out being obliterated by expert players, We used to have the same thing on the Office server which was full every night with folks that just wanted to have a good time then scoped weapons were introduced and the whole atmosphere of the server changed and now it sits empty a lot of the time, GG4 is a fairly popular server because of the social aspect of it I think changing the format in anyway could result in a decline in player numbers.

[[DtK] [V] Bear.]

I think you guys are losing players/missing out on potential players by stopping it. When I played I was getting annoyed that I had to be careful to not bhop when it is an instinct for me. I dont really play on gungame ever because of it, I cant even focus on the social aspect of the server, if im constantly focusing on trying to catch myself from bhopping...


I also think that if you guys said that you didn't want bhopping for making the server less chill then this wouldn't be an issue in the first place. But since you guys justified it with some sideways argument of teamkilling, it has confused upcoming players. Why are you justifiying banning bhopping with this argument? Why do you think its necessary to tell a lie?



I 100% understand you guys if you want the server to be less competitive without bhopping and I honestly can agree with you if that what you say. But since instead of outright saying that, you instead justified it by saying teamkilling. How are any of the new players to the server meant to understand that rule, when it literally makes no sense

[[DtK] [V] SpAc3y]

I personally believe that a competitive aspect to the server. Being full of good players would help grow the community. Loads of players want to be the best. The very best. The best there ever was. There’s still a bunch of players why are constantly working on their rank just like me.
If people join the server for the first time ever and there’s a bunch of really good players on I reckon they’d stay just to try and win.
I’ve tried other gg servers since the bhopping started being policed and it’s just not enough. Servers with low gravity? No thanks. Servers I win like it’s a cake walk? No thanks. Just don’t want to play on them. It’s too easy. I’m not encouraging players who aren’t that good to leave. No way. Most of the players on the server are cool people and I like playing with them regulars less of their skill level. Most of us like playing with each other full stop. It’s even better when the server is packed. Loads of fun. But I’ve stopped playing when there’s loads of players because I literally can’t stop myself from bhopping. It’s engrained in my DNA lol. Would just rather not start arguments or cause admins to have to stop playing and start admining either. We’re there to play

[[DtK] [Jedi] Envy_black]

lying, bit harsh. everyone has their own reasons why they don't like it (if they don't) for me i legitimately find it harder not to team kill when people are hopping around all over the place. Maybe because i don't bhop i have gotten very good at shooting around the regular walking/running player and then struggle when someone is bhopping and i just can't figure out which way they are going and where they are going to land to shoot around them. for other players they feel like its a bit of a speed hack. for some of the older players (over 50's or 60's) its not something they know how to do and don't wish to learn because they find it too hard. different people have different reasons and that's why you may hear those different opinions.



Personally i have not asked anyone over mic to stop hopping for months because i usually don't have a problem with it (when i did it was on nano with a full server and i asked politely i didn't demand). Spacey as an example, there are probably admin who have asked you not to more than others. I know from my experience i have explained the tk rule and reason when you have asked about it but have never actually got on and said hey rangdang dont hop. I have however, asked people to be careful when they hop and also when they run in front of each other. Just like i ask people not to shoot through their team mates. Maybe half of the problem is the difference in which admin is on and how they approach the bhoppers.

[[DtK] [V] Bear.]

Theres a difference between not liking it and banning it. Just because I don't like something doesn't really mean it deserves to be outright banned, because others might like it. So yes by justifying it as team killing, it is lying because it seems the consensus isn't that people want it gone because of team killing, its that its too hard for players to deal with.

[[DtK] [Jedi] Ham]

guys stop fighting it's christmas

[[DtK] [Jedi] Envy_black]

i legitimately find it harder not to team kill when people are hopping around all over the place. Maybe because i don't bhop i have gotten very good at shooting around the regular walking/running player and then struggle when someone is bhopping and i just can't figure out which way they are going and where they are going to land to shoot around them.


i don't see how its lying when i literally just told you that's exactly what happens to me.


not trying to sound like a jerk, it's hard to get tone through message. I actually 100% find it hard to shoot around the bhoppers but in saying that, im also not a jerk about it either because like i said above^^^ i understand it is a valued skill to a lot of players. hence why i only rarely ask and only on maps like nano when there's literally no way of shooting around them when they just manage to be everywhere very quickly.

[[DtK] [V] SpAc3y]

Ok we’re starting to head away from being civil here.
Lying is a bit harsh yes. But there is an element of twisting the truth going on.

Yes envy there has been a. Bit of a difference in how it’s been approached by certain admins and I know you haven’t named or shamed anyone which is good. But I can see it going in that direction.

As for shooting around bhoppers. You’re still shooting in a team mates direction. Wether I’m bhopping or not and the same for my team mates. If you’re just shooting in their direction and you wound or kill them... it’s on you. They’re going to move up, down, sideways, inside and out to try and not get shot. You don’t need to bhop to evade being shot, it’s just the preferred method of a bhopper.

The clarification thread that envy made a while back clearly states that there aren’t any rules against it. But it has been in the past treated as if it was actually banned. It is no longer like this but there are still restrictions. A lot of people who are mostly up to date on this topic believe that we aren’t allowed to bhop on small maps or a full server which is simply not the case. So there’s still an element of injustice based off the current clarification. I should have stated this in the original post but I did cover most of that early on in the thread.

Mostly (altho my words are a bit off) by removing the rules on bhopping. I mean stop policing it. As it does clearly state in envy’s thread that there is no rules against it.

Bear one of your comments can be taken as instigation. I know you don’t like the restrictions on bhopping and neither do I. I know it’s hard to but being diplomatic is key for both sides of the topic.

[[DtK] [Jedi] Envy_black]

yes i should have added that, there is actually no rule saying bhop is banned or not allowed so technically we cant remove a rule that doesn't exist. What i can agree to is that we can talk with all the admins about how they actually approach players in this situation. I personally don't want you guys to feel like you are not welcome or able to use your skill in our server, i've had so many good games with you rangdang, even games where you bhopped all over the place and i think the server enjoys your company. I also think sometimes you (not you rangdang specifically) need to remember that it does in fact make it very hard for some of us who aren't as good as you to try and shoot around people jumping from left to right at a speed faster than my eyes and fingers can aim around. In saying that. For me this is not personal, i just want to be able to have a fun game and in fact welcome any messages with suggestions that anyone may have to possibly improve their game play on our server. We don't really need to have a forum argument about it. You are all welcome to send a message at any time.

[[DtK] [V] Bear.]

Understood envy, I definitely agree with your reason to not want it though. I 100% understand your POV on it, and it definitely would make the server better for most of the player base.

[[DtK] [V] SpAc3y]

I think it definitely does need to be made public on the forums compared to behind closed doors between admins and some of the community members. Not so much an argument but definitely a discussion and up for a vote. As I said earlier there are a lot of people who believe that there are rules against it. Ie: not on small maps and not when the server is full. There are even some staff members who think this is the case. I’ve made a public thread so everyone can see what’s really going on and we all know what to expect. Even tho new players on the server most likely don’t know about the forums.

The point of the discussion is also to see everyone’s views on it and how it really effects the game play on the server.

I think that if the team killing really played a pivotal role in policing the bhopping. It’s obvious to me that policing the bhopping isn’t the correct way to reduce team killing. It will always be there. I still stand by saying that we can remove the players who do it on purpose but not the part where I said it’s the only thing we can do. I’ve always seen players giving other players advice on getting better. Teaching players how not to get killed by enemies OR team mates also helps you get better. We can also give players advice not being the ones who do the team killing. No one likes going down a level

[[DtK] [V] SpAc3y]

I also forgot that the clarification thread made by you envy also states that there isn’t any rules against it. I’ve been following the topic and nit picking in my own head everything there i can think about the entire topic. Even I was inder the impression that there are rules stating no bhopping on small maps or when the server is full




Edit:

Ily ham

[[DtK] [JA] zarco]

No Comment ????????????? why oh why is the question or is there... or though id say the boomerang has come back