Why are we so hard on our members/community?

[[DtK] [Jedi] boo_boo]

Hi All,

Why are we so hard on our members and
gaming community?

When we are playing online it can be intense.
That's the nature of the game and we say
things in the heat of the moment...we
are all guilty of that. Do we need to continually punish
people who play dtk cs when we get carried away? Are our
numbers growing exponentially?

I think we need to reflect on our standards
and behaviours when managing/leading
the servers...live and let live I say...let's
not become so bureaucratic/conservative that we lose
sight of having fun...we must allow for passionate responses
that may not be always appropriate...

It's a game and let's let off some steam...

Boo Boo

[[DtK] [LM] Knight_Ops.]

Thank you for clarifying exactly what you are referring to boo boo.

I recently had a friend re-banned for 6 months.

Your friend as you very well know is a former DtK admin who is more than aware of exactly what process and steps they need to follow in order to protest a ban if they feel so inclined.

Nobody gets banned for nothing, not even for 10 minutes and certainly not rebanned for 6 months unless there's a reason.

I certainly don't have the detail on what occurred

No kidding^

A decision was made after concerns were raised and the matter was personally investigated by Squall himself.

Unfortunately I'm not at liberty to discuss the subject of your friends ban any further with you, though he's more than free to submit a ban protest, and he does know how.

[[DtK] [C] Squall]

Let's assume you (you as in the general readers of this thread) own a restaurant.

Your restaurant isn't the best in the world nor the worst. You do get customers and you do intend to do better. Some guy comes in 1 day, lets call him Pylort Joans, he orders something and starts calling the food shit, the restaurant shit, the patrons shit etc. Asked what's wrong, he doesn't give any feedback but continues the tantrum,rants,etc

Next day the same thing happens. Due to his actions, patrons are inconvenienced , patrons coming in now turn away. Nothing good is coming from allowing this person in the restaurant. Eventually he is going to get kicked from the restaurant or the cops called in to deal with him.


The point of the above scenario? Well in a way DtK is similar to a restaurant. We the Council govern this community with assistance from Staff,SA's,JA's and EM's. We provide a forum, counter strike source servers and CSGO servers to the general public. To use these, you do not have to pay a single cent or put in an application of any sorts. We do not make a single cent from running these servers. Both Stig and I do it because we are passionate about CS and it's communities. We both have a background in running the aforementioned. We spend more than half a grand each month to keep this community running plus event prizes which comes from our pockets. What do we get in return (money,etc)? Nothing. We do not force server ads upon you nor is there any ads on the forums. We do not force donations on you, it is completely voluntary. The donation goals set for each month when fulfilled cover the cost partially. Hell, we haven't hit the goal in any of the months so far this year. We are lucky if it hits 50%. The same applies to our admins. They are not getting paid for what they do. They get admin privileges and that's it. All the time and effort they put into the servers, they aren't getting compensated as someone would outside of this community.

Our servers are open to everyone. The servers have a few rules and that's pretty much it. You don't need to put in an application to play, you don't have to do a single thing. While we are exulted when someone gives a nice feedback about the community and the servers, you are under no obligation to do so. So even if you enjoy a server a lot but do not feel like expressing this to us, that is totally fine with us. But on the other hand, if you come on the server, call the community shit ,call the server shit, call the admins shit and not offer any constructive feedback or suggestions, you will be getting banned. I am sorry but this is where we draw the line. We do not run this community, to be abused or to be a recipient of your verbal diarrhea.

It is so simple. If you like something , you can let us know but you are under no obligations to do so. If you do not like something, give us feedback in a respectful manner and it will be looked into. If you do not like something and are abusive,are putting down the community or the admins, you have no place here, simple as that.


-Regarding the mystery person (since no one wants to mention his name) and his 'harsh treatment'.

Before we delve into that, let me put something in perspective first. If Stig or I were to join a random server and banned 10 players on the server for no reason, those bans would be totally valid and unprotestable. The point I am trying to make here, is that you being able to play on the servers is not a right of yours, it is a privilege. So while we could do things this way, we don't. An ex admin who was demoted due to being inactive for 13 weeks straight was angry at me for his demotion , was spouting some beautiful things about me on the mg server, the admin on the server told him to stop but he did this on multiple occasions breaking the obvious server rules. I issued him a week's ban to cool off and he approached me on steam with questions about the ban and i enquired why he was so upset as i thought there may be a misunderstanding about why he was demoted and if there was a misunderstanding - the ban length would be reconsidered. Unfortunately i was told to 'nah get ♥♥♥♥ed'. So once again, I am under no obligation to tolerate this or even be lenient but we do otherwise. We give warnings, we give 'breaks' (short term bans) and in extreme cases where we feel absolutely no good will come to the community in letting someone stay, we ban them permanently.

boo_boo's and xoRZisT's posts give the impression someone made a slip of the tongue and was banned which isn't the case at all.

Firstly MP (mystery person) was part of the Office team. The office admin team at the time was made up of veteran office players. The admin team came up with proposal to run few trials on the server. All other admins were happy to implement the trials but MP wasn't[keep in mind these were trial proposals, not permanent changes]. However instead of expressing his opinion on the trials where it was being discussed (private office forums), he instead chose to throw a tantrum on the public forums and attack the actions of his team members [he was not infracted/banned for this]. He then rage quit the community. The SA of the server later approached and consoled him. The SA wanted him back as a JA and I agreed on the condition that MP would follow the rules and be on his best behaviour for a month. [no tantrums,rants,etc]. However this wasn't to be. MP continued to throw tantrums,rants and attack the office team on the forums. He did this multiple times and was told to stop creating threads for the sole purpose of the above, however he continued to do this after being specifically told not to. This was when he was banned for a month from the forums and servers. Not because of a single infraction but for continually breaking rules. While being banned, MP used another steam account to play on DtK servers (breaking another rule while being banned), his ban length was adjusted accordingly. However he again used another account and ban evaded and his ban length was again adjusted.

To address these:

When we are playing online it can be intense.
That's the nature of the game and we say
things in the heat of the moment...we
are all guilty of that.

Here's the thing. If I am on the server and Pilor Joans kills me 5 times in a row and in the heat of the moment i start swearing at him, that's totally justified. (if i stop at some point. If I don't it would be considered abuse/harassment and is a bannable offense). But if I join a server and start swearing and abusing someone for no reason - no way can you justify that as 'heat of the moment'.


Heat of the moment isn't when someone joins the server and straight away says 'oh, not this shit server'. [does not get banned for this]. When the admin on the server reminds him that he should not be calling the server shit, he gets abused and gets told he knows nothing and then continues to hurl abuse at an admin not even on the server. Based on how many infractions he previously had and how many chances he has had [told/advised/warned multiple times], the person gets banned accordingly. [oh and then i get abused on steam chat]. Once again, we are not running this community so people can call it shit for no reason or to get abused. If you want to use the heat of the moment argument - in the real world , if you kill someone in the heat of the moment, you get sent to jail. Over here we give you multiple chances. If you take these chances for granted and continue breaking rules, it is your bloody fault not ours if you get issued a lengthier ban

Someone who truly loves the community/servers, someone who is passionate about the community/servers will never call it shit, will be respectful and not abuse anyone. If you think otherwise, I do not know which planet you are from.


Was there a need for this long post from me? No. But hopefully it should clear up some misunderstandings and some of you will realize what they take for granted.


Yes it's only a game and this community is based around it. Does not mean you can be a dickhead just because it's a game. A lot of time, money and effort goes into running this community and a lot of people are involved in it, you don't have to write love letters to us, just follow a few simple rules.

[[DtK] [Jedi] Pilot Jones]

Let's assume you (you as in the general readers of this thread) own a restaurant.

Your restaurant isn't the best in the world nor the worst. You do get customers and you do intend to do better. Some guy comes in 1 day, lets call him Pylort Joans, he orders something and starts calling the food shit, the restaurant shit, the patrons shit etc. Asked what's wrong, he doesn't give any feedback but continues the tantrum,rants,etc

Next day the same thing happens. Due to his actions, patrons are inconvenienced , patrons coming in now turn away. Nothing good is coming from allowing this person in the restaurant. Eventually he is going to get kicked from the restaurant or the cops called in to deal with him.

Ayo, this Pylort Joans nigga sound like a real ♥♥♥♥in' criminal got damn, we don't need people like that, so thankful the police come take him down, damn delinquents man ruinin' good dining experiences shiiiiit.

[Goose]

In reply to that massive post by Council (btw, you should read the whole thing and let it sink in. Shines light on whats involved and what you get for nothing). MP is so obvious by now, if you don't know then don't worry about it, just try and take in what it takes to run a free gaming community on the Council and Admin side. I agree with a lot of what was said on both accounts. I get way caught up in DtK and care for it heaps, even though it's only a gaming community forum. I even cross the line sometimes, but know when it's too much. Some people forget that their are consequences to their actions even if this is a game. Just try and have fun instead of being negative and trolling.

[[DtK] [S] Krezand]

In reply to that massive post by Council (btw, you should read the whole thing and let it sink in. Shines light on whats involved and what you get for nothing). MP is so obvious by now, if you don't know then don't worry about it, just try and take in what it takes to run a free gaming community on the Council and Admin side. I agree with a lot of what was said on both accounts. I get way caught up in DtK and care for it heaps, even though it's only a gaming community forum. I even cross the line sometimes, but know when it's too much. Some people forget that their are consequences to their actions even if this is a game. Just try and have fun instead of being negative and trolling.

that was so adorable, goose omg.
u big qt.
#justgoosethings

[[DtK] [V] shan]

Was a good read Squall, Thanks for typing that out

[[DtK] [Jedi] boo_boo]

Thanks Squall for the detailed response and sharing your view.

I have a better understanding of the context.

I acknowledge and appreciate the selfless effort and time
the admin teams put in for all players/servers and I'm sure at some level
all players and members do.

As the lead Squall, you have made it clear there are boundaries which is as
it should be.

I think it's always healthy to appropriately challenge and review.

Thanks,

Squat's best friend,

boo boo

[[DtK] [JA] squat]

^^^ nicely put now can we all just get back to the killing

[[DtK] [Jedi] TC_TopCat]

Just be mindful of when Squall types We. Squall does pretty much all of the interfacing with the community, I am sure Stig isnt entirely out of the loop.

Squall should be thanked for his hands-on approach, and Council is a team you should be thankful to for the financials of the servers.

Thanks Stig and Squall.

[Luke]

I think it sounds like its time to jump ship and come play csgo

[[DtK] [LM] Rowdy]

OMG Squall said "Dickhead"!!!!

#justsquallythings

[[DtK] [Jedi] boo_boo]

I think it sounds like its time to jump ship and come play csgo

Luke, we all make our choices based on how we feel...
and I don't feel good about my friend's situation...but that's ok...cause I can....

boo boo

[[DtK] [SA] imthenewguy]

Thank you for clarifying exactly what you are referring to boo boo.

Your friend as you very well know is a former DtK admin who is more than aware of exactly what process and steps they need to follow in order to protest a ban if they feel so inclined.

Nobody gets banned for nothing, not even for 10 minutes and certainly not rebanned for 6 months unless there's a reason.

No kidding^

A decision was made after concerns were raised and the matter was personally investigated by Squall himself.

Unfortunately I'm not at liberty to discuss the subject of your friends ban any further with you, though he's more than free to submit a ban protest, and he does know how.

Makes me hot when you talk admin stuff!

OT, nice to read the goss on dtk

[[DtK] [LM] Knight_Ops.]

I think it's deliberate and funny that the thread title is "Why are we so hard on our members-community?", as if to suggest that there are multiple instances were people were dealt heavy punishments for seemingly minor infractions or offences when in reality this thread is actually only regarding one specific player and their just and deserved punishment for their own actions and repeatedly breaking the Community's rules and making a general ass out of themselves over and over.

It is just a game and players are free to trash talk and mildly abuse one another in good spirited fun here and there but I swear if you tried some of it on in a real life scenario like out with some mates or at a sporting event you'd get straight up snapped in half or smacked out cold.


See that sort of comment isn't abuse boo boo and doesn't get you kicked, banned or even a warning because it's a one off statement in response to provocation (by your own teammate no less).

I certainly don't have the detail on what occurred

Either boo boo didn't bother to ask his "friend" what happened or his friend misled boo boo into believing that he was otherwise being punished for no apparent reason when in reality he's solely responsible for his own destiny in the matter.

As Squall made it perfectly clear in his euphemistic post it's not about just one incident or occurrence involving said person that justified and warranted a 6 month re-ban, it's a cumulative culmination and continuance of their unacceptable attitude, poor behavior, and actions on the forums and in-game.

This is why some places serve alcohol in little plastic cups, cause there's always someone who wants to act like a child.

[Loki]

Nice write up Squall. Makes sense. I feel we can move on from this 'controversy' with a better understanding. All in all the Office DM server is admin-ed fairly.

Knight-Ops mate, good one, you truly are the stats and screenshot master lol

This is why some places serve alcohol in little plastic cups, cause there's always someone who wants to act like a child.

I dont exactly know why but this cracked me up. Great reference.

[[DtK] [N] cryptic.conviction]

lots o reading (been on break).... but interesting read... honorable mentions later :P

its quite interesting to see who takes things really really seriously and others not so much. imo some ppl take all this (dtk and playing cs) a little too seriously(its good and all to be involved and part of something but from where im sitting, seems a little to involved), i guess over the years i have had my fair share of rage at certain ppl and even left all together just because of what someone said... but what i've learnt from that and over the last year or 2 is that, this is the internet, why take it seriously at all. just my opinion anyway. ps cuff <- might be the reason for me playing a lot less than i used to (taking it significantly less seriously)

thread honorable mentions :
1. gotta be Squall. amazing.
2. Lord Caedus . haha beautiful. "damn delinquents man ruinin' good dining experiences shiiiiit." could not stop laughing
3. Goose. "Just try and have fun instead of being negative and trolling." took the thought straight outta my head.

oh and that was hilarious today booboo. or was it yesterday. that guy: whinge "your hacking" whinge *tell him these players have been playing for years in some cases* "go F your fat wives!" RQ

[[DtK] [Jedi] Knitting]

When you think about the fun DTK has provided to members over the last few years.
Then consider the fact Stig and Squall have dropped 78k to keep this running.
I have been here for a while and have been treated pretty well. Always welcomed on all servers if you have been involved in other clans you will know they dont run like this. You get kicked in peak periods to make way for higher ranked members.
I have never seen any of that in DTK.
I guess what i am trying to say is appreciate what DTK is. Be thankful that Stig and Squall have provided it. Enjoy and just play.

[[DtK] [M] SniperHero915]

it's a game and let's let off some steam

huehuehue

[[DtK] [Jedi] boo_boo]

[oh and that was hilarious today booboo. or was it yesterday. that guy: whinge "your hacking" whinge *tell him these players have been playing for years in some cases* "go F your fat wives!" RQ[/QUOTE]

LOL....hilarious...it's always the same with these guys...hey....thanks for defending me, I appreciate it!

PS.

Squat and I had our first play date

[2minutenoobles]

Just in case he still doesn't get the message.