Possible addition of the M249 to Office.

[SiNz]

Hey just wondering what peoples thoughts are on adding the M249. I always found the gun fun on office but I can see some issues arise since it's got a lot of bullets and we have enough Pro90s as is :P

I was thinking it could be implemented a couple of ways:
- Similar to the awp machine, only 2 allowed.
- Random spawn like the GG.

I'd like to have it in the menu but having 20+ players with M249s can become a nightmare..hilarious nightmare but also infuriating at times :P

[SiNz]

or just use the ak47 and learn to aim..it is the highest powered weapon aside from the m3 and awp.

By this logic we might as well just remove all weapons but the AK47. This is about adding a bit of variety to the weapons list.

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I agree with Knight on the rounds potentially being increased to 30. With the long reload, 30 would make it fairly balanced imo.

[[DtK] [C] Squall]

i dont see how the m249 could be more annoying then the pro90, it is harder to use

Exactly. If you ignore the lag issues with the m249 (sometimes happens to clients when multiple players are using it at the same time) and do a comparison of the 2 guns, the P90 is far superior for cs_office - Faster reload, faster movement speed and easily managed recoil.

25 rounds isn't an adequate enough incentive imo for a player to choose it over other available weapons especially when you take the reload speed into consideration.
But at the same time I still managed to mow down 5 opponents with those 25 rounds at one point.


Nobody wants to have players voice these same tired complaints with the M249.

Squall has been very careful with implementing this trial on the server.
With 25 rounds, so far in my view it's fine. I would ultimately like to see the ammo increased to at least 30 rounds and see how that plays out for a week or two. Perhaps even 40 rounds.

By this logic we might as well just remove all weapons but the AK47. This is about adding a bit of variety to the weapons list.

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I agree with Knight on the rounds potentially being increased to 30. With the long reload, 30 would make it fairly balanced imo.

Clip size has been increased to 30.


DtK has 3 Deathmatch servers and a 4th one will possibly go up within the next few months. I simply aren't a "fan" of removing a weapon completely from a server. Players should have the freedom to choose whatever weapons they want or at least should have access to all weapons in some form on a DM server. If there is an significant issue with a particular weapon, removal shouldn't be the answer. Changes can be made to address the issue e.g awp has been an issue on office, it's not completely removed but a compromise in the form of awp vending machines was made, multiple smokes can cause lag for clients especially on a full server however it hasn't been completely removed - players have a random chance of getting one at spawn. Once you remove a weapon for whatever reasons, there really is nothing to stop people from asking to remove other weapons for whatever reasons and they would need to be removed because of that one weapon that was removed. We want players to have an enjoyable experience on the DM servers and part of that experience would be to allow them to use their favorite weapon regardless of other players opinion on that weapon (too nooby, too overpowered ,etc). If there is a problem with the weapons, compromises can made, changes done.

The only issue with Para on Office has been the clip size of 100 bullets. There was never any trials done with a smaller clip size. In it's current reincarnation, I don't see any of the previous issues associated with the para on office. There is still a middle ground to be reached where the para isn't underpowered and at the same time doesn't cause issues as it did in it's 100 bullet clip form.


tl;dr I don't want weapons to start getting removed from DM servers(READ: DM SERVERS, not just office) because players aren't a fan of it or more specifically because of threads like :
http://www.dying2kill.com.au/showthr...ood-reason-why.

http://www.dying2kill.com.au/showthr...ole-P90-debate

http://www.dying2kill.com.au/showthread.php/10762-P90

which is why a modified version of the para was added to the office server.

[SiNz]

Cheers for update Squall. I reckon 30 will be a good middle ground for it.

[[DtK] [SA] WalkerBoh]

50 rounds. Loved seeing the gun back but 25 rounds was just meh. i like the idea of it being like the GG and each player can only use it once per round. Maybe something like once you use the bullets in the mag it cant be reloaded.
imagine all the window campers having an m249 with 50+ bullets just mowing down terrorists as they come out of spawn. Sounds like fun as a ct. and then a special reward for the t's, while they all reloading for 20 minutes run out and clean em up with knives.

I hate p90's when im getting owned by it, but love using it occasionally. its an exceptionally easy gun to use and loads of fun to boot. when i get killed too many times by 1 i tend to get 1 myself. My usual wep of choice is the ak.

But its counterstrike and there are some things that will never ever change. Camping of any description, hackers, players that are just way better than you and players that are worse. Guns. whingers and whiners. These things have always been a part of counterstrike, and every single person has experienced and dealt it out at some point in their counterstrike lives. I dont really care which gun kills me, your still dead and you respawn. Rusty with an ak pretty much = your dead. Ops with almost anything = dead. The troll sinz with an awp = dead. Plenty of other awesome players on the server that are just deadly and a pain in the ass to kill. Some player with a p90 = less dead than from the 3 afforementioned players.

I disagree with the removal of any gun from the game tbh. But +1 for the m249 return trial.

[[DtK] [V] stan182]

By this logic we might as well just remove all weapons but the AK47. This is about adding a bit of variety to the weapons list.

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I agree with Knight on the rounds potentially being increased to 30. With the long reload, 30 would make it fairly balanced imo.

logic? your logic in "adding more variety" makes no sense when the every weapon in css is available to choose from EXCEPT the para.
so your argument is invalid.

[SiNz]

logic? your logic in "adding more variety" makes no sense when the every weapon in css is available to choose from EXCEPT the para.
so your argument is invalid.

Dak daks aren't on the list.*

^Scratch that, apparently dak daks got added but when!?

[[DtK] [SA] WalkerBoh]

Dak Daks need to be changed if they are staying. Currently only 1 per team is allowed. But if 1 person on the team chooses "choose same weapon every round" noone else can have it. So if your on random weapons every round, and the selector grants you the dak dak but someone already has it you get to run around with w/e pistol you were granted. I got the glock 2 times in a row, which was kind of fun killing the opposition dak daker with a glock.

Some ideas are make it like the GG or the awp or the m249. Limited bullets, random spawns vending machines. Theyve all been discussed for other weps so no need to repeat them all. Fun to see it back, but can see alot of complaints coming soon once the novelty wears out.

1 idea i suggested to Knight ops who didnt like it much, was to make it only available to people who have selected random weapons every round. Seems fair to me. They run the = risk of getting lame weps or good ones. Maybe the same thing for the m249. Might see alot more ppl choosing random weps, making for some way more interesting battles. Then again maybe it wouldnt change a thing.

Some things to think about maybe anyway.

[2minutenoobles]

One thing I noticed about the p90 is it tends to be a case of monkey see, monkey do.

[Complex1ty]

Limited to 30 bullets, I don't really see the point of using it then as the point of the gun is to have high ammo capacity.

In my opinion, have it at 100 or don't have it at all.

[[DtK] [LM] Knight_Ops.]

Just quickly,

Limited to 30 bullets, I don't really see the point of using it then as the point of the gun is to have high ammo capacity.
In my opinion, have it at 100 or don't have it at all.

For starters, why should we even listen to you and why do you feel like you have any authority to comment about the m429 on Office DM when you haven't even played on the server since the change was first implemented with the initial 25 rounds or even since the update to 30 rounds?
Complex Playtime.jpg
Furthermore if office was the only DtK server you played on Complex1ty, you wouldn't even meet the minimum requirement of 20 hours playtime on the server to even apply to become a member.

There are legitimate concerns and valid reasons why the ammo capacity is being limited for this weapon whilst we continue to trial its revival on the server.

100 rounds imo would be pretty awesome. I just don't think it would work on Office DM. I'm pretty certain the vast majority of Office "regulars" would arrive at the same logical conclusion also and could easily foresee problems arising from doing so.

The auto sniper is fun, it has some concerns but nothing that cant be tweaked so as to find a fair and agreeable consensus.

[Loki]

The auto sniper...wow...

Even I was struggling to go out of T spawn with a window camped dak dak..

[[DtK] [T] Slothz]

daks daks
why?
are we like trying to stop window camping with daks daks?

[SiNz]

daks daks
why?
are we like trying to stop window camping with daks daks?

If anything it completely shuts down the front T spawn. That L hook part is a death sentence lol. If you aren't getting killed before you get through the doors to goto garry the second you show up on long hall you're dead from CT snipers.

Imo the garry window camping with them isn't any worse than the usual shit you put up with but when you add in 3-4 dak daks at CT sniper it gets pretty hilarious...from a CT perspective :P

[[DtK] [V] stan182]

Dak daks aren't on the list.*

^Scratch that, apparently dak daks got added but when!?

^scratch that, i didn't even think about the dak dak because it's another weapon a noob uses because they can't aim to achieve a decent frag.
so if it makes you feel better,yes i forgot the dak dak.
but unless you can come up with a better reason to add the para into office instead of ohhh variety,dont bother.
and this topic has been discussed before.

[[DtK] [LM] Knight_Ops.]

You are the one stan182 or PM: S [SOLO] Jenny's ballsack (which ever alias you want to be know as) who needs to expand and elaborate by providing us with a valid reason as to why we shouldn't have paras on Office DM in their current form. Just because you don't like it isn't good enough.

unless you can come up with a better reason to add the para into office instead of ohhh variety,dont bother.
and this topic has been discussed before.

And before you do, perhaps trial it some more and take what Squall already said into consideration, because it rings very true.

The only issue with Para on Office has been the clip size of 100 bullets. There was never any trials done with a smaller clip size. In it's current reincarnation, I don't see any of the previous issues associated with the para on office. There is still a middle ground to be reached where the para isn't underpowered and at the same time doesn't cause issues as it did in it's 100 bullet clip form.

[SiNz]

^scratch that, i didn't even think about the dak dak because it's another weapon a noob uses because they can't aim to achieve a decent frag.
so if it makes you feel better,yes i forgot the dak dak.
but unless you can come up with a better reason to add the para into office instead of ohhh variety,dont bother.
and this topic has been discussed before.

Damn the hostility!

There doesn't need to be a better reason. Variety of guns is a perfectly valid reason.

Maybe you could enlighten us as to why the para being included is a bad thing? Seems only fair since I've given reasons and ways for it to be included without wrecking gameplay.

[RuStY]

OMFG!!!!!!!!!!! OMFG!!! IT'S BACK IN THE LIST!!! WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!


But i agree with complexity. It kinda kills it's point as a high suppressive fire weapon if you take down its clip size.
Maybe restrict it like awp. Stick 2 in a vending machine somewhere or something.

It's a machine gun come on. Where is all the bullet belts going all rambo and terminator XD?

EDIT: OR put it in the selection list. But only have a set amount of people who can pick it. For example 4 players select para. Everyone else will have to wait till they die. And if they have it on remember weapons tough. Wait till they leave or are finished with it.

EDIT2: AND if your worried about one side whoring para. MAYBE limit the number of paras to each side if its that much of an issue. Gosh.

EDIT3: just found out the dak daks are set like that.

[[DtK] [JA] squat]

The main reason I started to play on office was the weapons, the options given wee not conducive to camping I was against the awp being introduced and even though I have learned to live with them I am still not a fan. I still believe that awps dak daks and paras are better placed on dust which is a campers paradise and leave the rushers a place to play their natural game. Office was always a rushers server with pitched battles for control of the back stairs being the norm. Please although campers deserve their place in the universe leave them on dust with the rest of their kind.

[[DtK] [LM] Knight_Ops.]

I first started playing on Office DM because of the instant respawning on death, before I found DtK's Office DM server I used to play a lot of fy.iceworld because I didn't have to wait so long to actually play the game again.

Normal CS is still fun but far too often I find that the last remaining players tend to just stuff around hiding and waiting for the round timer to run out.

Overall I do prefer rushing over camping, but I can see and respect equally how they are also two vastly differing strategies and tactics, camping employs a certain amount of patience and restraint whilst rushing is geared towards speed, finesse and reflex’s. Some could argue that camping also incorporates these same aspects too no doubt.

The awp isn't always about camping sometimes I like to get up close and personal with it either by quick scoping or no scoping, kind of like the M3 Shotgun that thing is a total beast if you master it.

Office DM provides me with the opportunity to rush in without hesitation from fear of having to sit the rest of the round out when I inevitably die because somewhere along the line my rushing tactic went awry.

I think the awps have been a good addition to Office DM. The awp's in their current incarnation on Office do contribute to varied and dynamic gameplay just like and all the other weapons Counterstrike has to offer.

The actual name of the game “Counterstrike” really means to counter attack or to counter your opponents attack, so if your opponent is doing something or using a particular weapon and keeps killing you, the whole point is to find a way to counter it.

Because this game poses real human players against one another each player is a different challenge with a different level of difficulty. Some players are always going to be more of a challenge to kill then others for several reasons, that more often than not have nothing to do with what weapon they are using.

TL;DR
Awps, dak dak's and Paras have never been a main stay of Office DM it's true, but surely there is a middle ground that can be realised and reached where by players can have them in some form or another instead of simply excluding them entirely. I'm fairly certain of it in fact, with tweaking and modding we are more than capable of finding a fair and agreeable albeit compromised solution for all players.

To not try at all would be far worse than trying and failing imo.

[SiNz]

People camp no matter what gun it is. Obviously the biggest difference to Ak campers and awp is the range but add in the amount of Pro90s on the server and awping isn't anywhere near as dangerous as people go on about. Majority of my kills of rushers is because they don't use the map to their advantage and run up long halls.