Window

[[DtK] [V] zone]

Well the window thread closed before I got a chance to post so here is my 2 cents.

I really like the idea! Especially when the box was visible so that you could see that it was there and a no go zone.

that door on the T side is a real choke point giving campers plenty of opportunity and arguably a real advantage especially when there is more than one camper.

So nice one to the team for that!

[[DtK] [Jedi] Pythoness]

If the spawn protection was increased by a little, I think it would negate any spawn camping from the cts. It would give the t's slightly extra time to either move away from the area or pop the campers in the face

This has been trialed before to help with the window camping, but even a little extra time pushes the advantage away too much for T's. With longer spawn protection, if a T is fast enough, they can make it to the window with the protection still on, and by this time kill 4-5 CTs easily. This then makes it much much harder for CTs to hold backyard at all.

We are trying to make it so that its only stopping camping at the right side (from Ts perspective) window, but allowing CTs to still hold the left side and all of the backyard. We do not what any advantage to be had by either team, but for the game to be more of a back and forth battle to hold the choke points, rather than Ts being lemmings until a lucky nade lands and Ts actually push.

Pythy

[[DtK] [V] stan182]

just tested it out,
it does help reduce the window camping,BUT it is still possible for ct's to camp at window by jumping up and just moving to the next window.
there are other factors that affect gameplay such as
1.game tempo,obviously its going to be slowed down for players that like attacking garry,
2.T's will be affected running through the window,noone can shoot while standing in the box, so any T trying to make a quick run through the window could easily be picked off by ct's camping "outside" the box.
3.new players coming into office will obviously have questions with the box,could be positive or negative.

overall im against the box, noone likes window campers, but they haven't really been a issue for me personally unless im playing with a very weak T side,
but take in mind T's do have the advantage at reaching the AWP first.

[2minutenoobles]

I really like this idea! My thoughts when it comes to changing things on office is to try to add to the server as opposed to taking away from it. Whilst the window-box as current does take away that particular (albeit small) camping area, I think adding a little 'no damage' area would be awesome. It would of course have to be trialed as well, but i could really see it being a good bit of fun. Somewhere people could muck around (a bit like the projector room an age ago) with people from both teams.

I think if this were to happen, maybe a time bomb if you're in there too long (say 30 secs), so we never end up with a stale-mate if the server pop is low? (Ty KO).

As I said to Knight Ops last night, this idea could nevertheless create problems. For example, once a player reaches the score of 109, every player on the map will likely flee to the safety of the 'panic room' () to stop 110 being reached.

This could be both amusing and annoying (especially for the player with a score of 109!) - but a time limit forcing players out of the 'panic room' could indeed address that (although I'd suggest it be lower - perhaps 10 secs maximum).

[2minutenoobles]

just tested it out,
it does help reduce the window camping,BUT it is still possible for ct's to camp at window by jumping up and just moving to the next window.

Yes CTs can still camp at the next window, but not in a way that almost completely obscures them from T spawn vision and makes them near-invulnerable to return fire (and everyone knows exactly which spots I'm referring to). Sure, CTs can camp at the next window, but, as is the case on all other maps, in doing so they have to expose themselves to possible fire when firing (as should be the case). Indeed, camping at the next window is much more of a 'corner camp' than the unfair 'peek camping' that has caused so many problems.

there are other factors that affect gameplay such as
1.game tempo,obviously its going to be slowed down for players that like attacking garry;

Well, not in my experience so far. Indeed, the lack of T spawn slaughter resulting from 'peep camping' stops T spawn being an annoying choke point, and allows Ts to exit faster and therefore engage quicker.

2.T's will be affected running through the window,noone can shoot while standing in the box, so any T trying to make a quick run through the window could easily be picked off by ct's camping "outside" the box.

Well, immunity in the 'panic room' () would address this somewhat, but nevertheless it would soon become clear which spots will become new 'camp spots' around the 'panic room' and both Ts and CTs can act accordingly. And the camping would be 'corner camping' (with all its attendant risks) - not the problematic 'peek camping'.

Indeed, 'peek camping' appears to be a problem/glitch/unfair advantage unique to DTK Office DM, likely resulting from the ability to infinitely respawn (which the original designers of the map never envisioned) and the lack of any imperative to rescue hostages within a time limit (which the original designers of the map never envisioned).

3.new players coming into office will obviously have questions with the box,could be positive or negative.

New players have endless questions anyway! This is nothing new!

I'm sure you've heard some of these 'Greatest Hits' during your time in DTK Office:

a) "How do I get an AWP?"
b) "WHICH vending machine has the AWP?"
c) "WHICH button do I use on the vending machine?"
d) "How do I change guns?"
e) "What number is the Deagle/Scope/M4/Glock/Lightsaber?"
f) "What is that glowing red thing?"
g) "How do I pick up the glowing red thing?"
h) "How do I get a custom skin?"
i) "Do I really have to donate to get a skin?"
j) "Why are the hostages chickens?"
k) "Why can't we ban BooBoo?"
l) "What is a vending machine?"
m) "Where is Gordon Freeman?"

[[DtK] [SA] WalkerBoh]

The admins are not trying to rule out camping on the entire map. xD

Yeah i understand that. But if i can see it happening so can you. Once you fix the window camping, the complainers will start in on the other spots. Just trying to kill a few birds with 1 stone, whilst still permitting some camping, just with a diminished time frame that you are able to camp that 1 spot.
I mean camp all you like but if you are doing reduced damage, you would move on. If you started losing hp after say a minute of camping, you would move unless your good enough to run in grab the hp packs from those you killed, and run back to the spot.
Imo the best idea yet for the window camping is to raise the height of the container at the window to provide a much larger profile target. This would also prevent the guys who sit right back at the wall shooting above the window ledge over the window campers heads, from being able to do so maybe.
Food for thought anyway. Maybe the next test will be something awesome. The box certainly works and has generated a hell of a lot of talk.

[[DtK] [S] Cuffeh]

I'm sure you've heard some of these 'Greatest Hits' during your time in DTK Office:

a) "How do I get an AWP?"
b) "WHICH vending machine has the AWP?"
c) "WHICH button do I use on the vending machine?"
d) "How do I change guns?"
e) "What number is the Deagle/Scope/M4/Glock/Lightsaber?"
f) "What is that glowing red thing?"
g) "How do I pick up the glowing red thing?"
h) "How do I get a custom skin?"
i) "Do I really have to donate to get a skin?"
j) "Why are the hostages chickens?"
k) "Why can't we ban BooBoo?"
l) "What is a vending machine?"
m) "Where is Gordon Freeman?"

Lol, this cracked me up so much. So, so, very true.

Yeah i understand that. But if i can see it happening so can you. Once you fix the window camping, the complainers will start in on the other spots. Just trying to kill a few birds with 1 stone, whilst still permitting some camping, just with a diminished time frame that you are able to camp that 1 spot.
I mean camp all you like but if you are doing reduced damage, you would move on. If you started losing hp after say a minute of camping, you would move unless your good enough to run in grab the hp packs from those you killed, and run back to the spot.
Imo the best idea yet for the window camping is to raise the height of the container at the window to provide a much larger profile target. This would also prevent the guys who sit right back at the wall shooting above the window ledge over the window campers heads, from being able to do so maybe.
Food for thought anyway. Maybe the next test will be something awesome. The box certainly works and has generated a hell of a lot of talk.

This particular spot has been the most discussed re: the camping topic. Nobody [from my whole time on Office] really complains about any other camp congestion than that corner of the window. So really like I said, we aren't going to move onto the next spot after this. It's to try and balance out the advantages & disadvantages to both sides from both angles. We aren't planning on ♥♥♥♥ing the CTs over lel.
Raising the height is currently in discussion unsure of a resolution as of yet as I'm not sure if you can change the blue box itself, as opposed to adding something atop it. But we are definitely in discussion! xD

[[DtK] [SA] WalkerBoh]

awesome. nuff said. i bow to the wisdom of the admin / design team.

[[DtK] [LM] Knight_Ops.]

Imo the best idea yet for the window camping is to raise the height of the container at the window to provide a much larger profile target.

This is our primary objective, allowing people to still camp there if they wish to do so. However they should have to present more of their player model as a target and not just the thinnest sliver of their head.

When the server isn't busy this is not so much of a problem but when the server is packed and players camp there barely exposing themselves it becomes ridiculous and a real problem as players avoid joining T's or simply rage quit.

We're still tweaking and trialing stuff whilst taking all constructive ideas into consideration and at the same time accessing the viability of all our available options to address this issue.

[RuStY]

I disagree with Rusty, and I think his rationale is a load of balls. A half dozen guys in an entrenched position mowing down freshly spawned Ts funneled through a doorway isnt "skillz", nowhere near it. If you managed to pull that off in a proper Counter-Strike round, I'd say good on you, but this is team-♥♥♥♥ing-deathmatch -- you're grinding for kills in the cheapest way possible and you know it. Its as cheap a dick move as they come, and this adjustment to the map was long overdue.

Keep the box.

lol. Please.

You do realise that the box they moved in is a form of cheating right.
Infact having the box there when im terrorist will allow me to mop the floor with you even harder which i am against.
I stop cheaters. Not promote it. But what ever you say invisigoth.

[Luke]

So i stop playing office regularly and they need to put a box thing in the window to stop the window rats instead

[[DtK] [V] Angro]

So i stop playing office regularly and they need to put a box thing in the window to stop the window rats instead

Yeah luke it's all your fault xD

[[DtK] [LM] Delta]

So i stop playing office regularly and they need to put a box thing in the window to stop the window rats instead

No one can aim like you do luke.

[2minutenoobles]

awesome. nuff said. i bow to the wisdom of the admin / design team.

[Luke]

On a feedback note I don't mind the anticamp box not a bad concept, can't see what all the fuss is about lol

[[DtK] [JA] squat]

awesome. nuff said. i bow to the wisdom of the admin / design team.

This guy knows how to kiss ass

[[DtK] [JA] squat]

So i stop playing office regularly and they need to put a box thing in the window to stop the window rats instead

Have you not been there?

[[DtK] [V] stan182]

anti camping idea is good but needs alot of work on this.
imo there are more cons than pros for a T..things i have noticed playing as a ct an t,
T's will always go stairway option because obviously no one is going to run through the box when you cant shoot out of it either.
or,T's will move from the left window and try shoot their way out.
another MAJOR flaw,you can't reload in or when you slightly touch the box,very annoying when you are actually shooting at others from the stairs.

ct side,not so much flaws,you will obviously now go through the stairs instead or just go front yard.

[[DtK] [V] JetNZ]

It's definitely evened things out. It'll take a while to adjust though. Still aiming at those windows looking for "icamp killed you again" and similar players.

[RuStY]

http://www.dying2kill.com.au/pages.php?pageid=13
Do we even follow these rules anymore?

This Guide and its subsections are for all DTK servers, except Jail Break.

At DTK (Dying to Kill) we pride ourselves on game servers with very few in game rules. We feel every player should be able to play how they want. On allot of our Death Match server’s, player’s trial certain types of war strategies. Other communities and servers tend to place rules and restrictions on what you can and cannot do, they limit you learning certain skills and strategies so valuable in Pugs and Wars.

DTK admin are under strict guidelines, they are all aware that they do not interfere with the players that are following the very few server rules outlined here, nor should they be messing with gravity, map rotation or any general server setting.

[[DtK] [LM] Bruce]

You guys need to keep in mind a lot of the "window campers" play on the server because they enjoy going CT and having that control over their opponents. Personally i do not do it but i can see those people who play more as CT generaly do not like being beaten so an easier way to get kills is just poke ur head up high enuff over the window and spray.

By having the box there it makes it "alot" easier for t's to hold ct's off in fact i think it goes to far to the point it was easy as for the hour a bit i was on yesterday to spawn camp ct's through garry... which they then whinged about.. hahaha