Objectives in Office DM.

[[DtK] [SA] WalkerBoh]

Gday again everyone. I was just wondering if it would be a good idea or possible to remove the hosties from Office DM. It seems to me that it's just a way of slowing down a seemless game. DM isnt about rescuing hosties. It's about kills. Maybe it's just me but you removed anti camp (good move btw, i love whingeing about and then killing campers)(Oh and i love camping against the guys who smash me also. :P) and i reckon removing the irrelevant objectives would improve the map a whole lot more.
Just my 2 bobs worth. Now ill sit here cringing as everyone says how noob i am

[[DtK] [SA] WalkerBoh]

How about no kick, but any dmg you do to the hosties, you lose an equal amount from your hp.

I really like this idea. Maybe to stop people now just killing them figuring the punishment is easy give a full round ban per hostie killed also.

[RuStY]

I came running through the Garage to the rear yard and lobbed my nade through the window and it exploded them. I didnt realise they were there, someone else must have been rescuing them.
I dont think i had killed any other hosties, unless a similar thing happened ear;lier and i just forgot, or didnt realise. But it's all good. I just thought the goal of DM was to get the most kills. I mean it ends when someone hits 110 kills not after they rescue the hostages 50 times or something.
All i mean is that on a DM server i figure people ruin a free flowing game by rescuing them. Normal servers is fine. Ive not yet seen the T's plant a bomb on the dust DM server however, and i was merely asking if office dm could not go down the same path.
But i still love office and i usually just buy a p90 and camp in the terrorist spawn to prevent the rescuers when they come as there are a couple of guys who seem to just rescue hosties. Its all fun. Was just a thought that escaped my brain via my fingertips.

Hostages can become annoying sometimes but i don't mind them in there.
They just need the kick afterhowmanymurdered removed.

Honestly people murdering them for lols is fine.
It doesn't break game play. They will respawn next round. And again. And again.

[[DtK] [V] i pwn noobz]

need to have more admins on dtk servers to catch anyone hacking or abusing admins

[Goose]

lol ^ double post.

[[DtK] [LM] Knight_Ops.]

In my opinion I believe the removal of hostages from Office DM, would ultimately see less people populate the server when it is empty and a reduction overall in new player traffic.

I don't see the point to be honest, they aren't interfering with game play at all.

This^

It seems to me that it's just a way of slowing down a seemless game.

This kind of made me smile a little as I pondered if you were serious.

All i mean is that on a DM server i figure people ruin a free flowing game by rescuing them.

This is simply not true, the only annoyance I can foresee arising from players rescuing the hostages and a round restarting is if your hoarding 300 plus health and don't want it reset back to 100.

A round re-spawn on Office DM is incredibly fast and the last time I checked the round timer was set to 4 minutes anyway so there's always a re-spawn every 4 minutes.
Round re-spawns can be a good thing because it gives you a fresh opportunity to rush and take control of a choke point and you know the other teams players only have 100hp when you get there.

DM isnt about rescuing hosties. It's about kills.

This is very true, though it doesn't always have to be.
Removing the hostages from Office DM will diminish not contribute to quality game-play on the server.

Having hostages on Office DM adds variety to the servers' game-play dynamic and for the most part the hostages on Office DM get left alone anyway though it is nice to always have them there.

When the server is quieter, people actually like to complete the objective of rescuing the hostages, you gain points and well yeah. Win the round.

This is me^

These hostages in question are not so easy to rescue, in fact it can be quite a challenging exercise in situational awareness and very difficult to achieve when there are 10 or more players per side because of the immediate re-spawn time and spawn protection.

Hostages when rescued can be used as a tool for resetting the round if you have a serial knifer who has acquired a great deal of Health (say well over 1000 and yes that it possible) from knifing and is virtually impossible to kill if you are only knifing also. This tactic also works if someone is whoring the Golden Gun.

I was on 105 / 39 and i killed 3 hosties with a nade and got kicked.

I think you may have killed more than 3, not meaning with the nade, I mean prior to that, cause I've accidently killed all 4 before and I wasn't kicked.

The kick limit for killing hostages on Office was set to 5 the last time I checked and players do receive a warning message alerting them to the consequences for repeatedly doing so.

Some players don't care about losing points or getting kicked, some players just want to watch the watch the world burn.... And they rejoin just to kill the hostages again and again

Attachment 1747

Yeah but some people just stand in T spawn and kill them on purpose. That's what the kick is good for.

Honestly people murdering them for lols is fine.
It doesn't break game play. They will respawn next round. And again. And again.

There needs to be a penalty in place for killing the hostages otherwise Terrorist players will simply eliminate the hostages in spawn at the start of every round with impunity to close of that possible scenario eventuality or because perhaps just because their somewhat demented.

I think it would be better (although perhaps not viable or even possible to implement) that if you're a Counter Terrorist and a hostage dies in your custody whilst you're escorting them then it should be as if you were responsible for the hostage's death and lose points accordingly and also get kicked after 5 hostage deaths.

How about no kick, but any dmg you do to the hosties, you lose an equal amount from your hp.

I'd like to see this concept trialed, I'm not sure if taking damage for your collateral damage is a good idea but it would apply to CT's and T's so it's a fair compromise.

I think that concept plus trialing an increase in the hostage kill kick limit from 5 to say 7 or 8 perhaps should suffice.

My suggestion if you really must tinker with the hostages is to leave the hostages as they are and increasing their health only to around 175-200 HP (If that's even possible) this could be trialed to help mitigate unintentional and collateral damage kills of hostages via grenades or otherwise.

Personally I do not see a need to modify the current hostage settings on Office DM with specific regard to their presence on the server or to players otherwise being kicked for killing to many of them.
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Chickens, now that's what office really needs.

Yeah, that's right I said it...

Chickens, seriously 2-3 chickens with random spawns like the ones in the market place on CS Italy, no kick or penalty for killing and no points lost or gained. Just 2-3 random (no clip) chickens minding their own chicken business and doing whatever chickens do Hahaha!
Because chickens that's why.
LMFAO XD come on, how ridiculous would that be haha. Or perhaps turn the hostages into chickens. Yeah chicken rescue FTW.
If chickens where added and trialed on Office DM.
I cant imagine they'd receive negative feedback or cause any issues like server lag or dropped frames like smoke grenades did. Just a trial would be fun

I dunno, Meh.

[RuStY]

In my opinion I believe the removal of hostages from Office DM, would ultimately see less people populate the server when it is empty and a reduction overall in new player traffic.


This^



This kind of made me smile a little as I pondered if you were serious.



This is simply not true, the only annoyance I can foresee arising from players rescuing the hostages and a round restarting is if your hoarding 300 plus health and don't want it reset back to 100.

A round re-spawn on Office DM is incredibly fast and the last time I checked the round timer was set to 4 minutes anyway so there's always a re-spawn every 4 minutes.
Round re-spawns can be a good thing because it gives you a fresh opportunity to rush and take control of a choke point and you know the other teams players only have 100hp when you get there.



This is very true, though it doesn't always have to be.
Removing the hostages from Office DM will diminish not contribute to quality game-play on the server.

Having hostages on Office DM adds variety to the servers' game-play dynamic and for the most part the hostages on Office DM get left alone anyway though it is nice to always have them there.



This is me^

These hostages in question are not so easy to rescue, in fact it can be quite a challenging exercise in situational awareness and very difficult to achieve when there are 10 or more players per side because of the immediate re-spawn time and spawn protection.

Hostages when rescued can be used as a tool for resetting the round if you have a serial knifer who has acquired a great deal of Health (say well over 1000 and yes that it possible) from knifing and is virtually impossible to kill if you are only knifing also. This tactic also works if someone is whoring the Golden Gun.





The kick limit for killing hostages on Office was set to 5 the last time I checked and players do receive a warning message alerting them to the consequences for repeatedly doing so.

Some players don't care about losing points or getting kicked, some players just want to watch the watch the world burn.... And they rejoin just to kill the hostages again and again

Attachment 1747





There needs to be a penalty in place for killing the hostages otherwise Terrorist players will simply eliminate the hostages in spawn at the start of every round with impunity to close of that possible scenario eventuality or because perhaps just because their somewhat demented.

I think it would be better (although perhaps not viable or even possible to implement) that if you're a Counter Terrorist and a hostage dies in your custody whilst you're escorting them then it should be as if you were responsible for the hostage's death and lose points accordingly and also get kicked after 5 hostage deaths.



I'd like to see this concept trialed, I'm not sure if taking damage for your collateral damage is a good idea but it would apply to CT's and T's so it's a fair compromise.

I think that concept plus trialing an increase in the hostage kill kick limit from 5 to say 7 or 8 perhaps should suffice.

My suggestion if you really must tinker with the hostages is to leave the hostages as they are and increasing their health only to around 175-200 HP (If that's even possible) this could be trialed to help mitigate unintentional and collateral damage kills of hostages via grenades or otherwise.

Personally I do not see a need to modify the current hostage settings on Office DM with specific regard to their presence on the server or to players otherwise being kicked for killing to many of them.
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Chickens, now that's what office really needs.

Yeah, that's right I said it...

Chickens, seriously 2-3 chickens with random spawns like the ones in the market place on CS Italy, no kick or penalty for killing and no points lost or gained. Just 2-3 random (no clip) chickens minding their own chicken business and doing whatever chickens do Hahaha!
Because chickens that's why.
LMFAO XD come on, how ridiculous would that be haha. Or perhaps turn the hostages into chickens. Yeah chicken rescue FTW.
If chickens where added and trialed on Office DM.
I cant imagine they'd receive negative feedback or cause any issues like server lag or dropped frames like smoke grenades did. Just a trial would be fun

I dunno, Meh.

I think to many people play ct to much and dislike this idea of removing kick limit because of it.

Play terrorist as much as i do and prevent rescue enough times resulting in kicks and you would want it removed to.

[[DtK] [JA] squat]

Exploding chickens maybe?

[[DtK] [S] Cuffeh]

I think to many people play ct to much and dislike this idea of removing kick limit because of it.

Play terrorist as much as i do and prevent rescue enough times resulting in kicks and you would want it removed to.

I usually play T and my opinions are as above. -shrugs-

[[DtK] [JA] squat]

Removing the hosties would be like removing the golden gun, It wouldn't feel like home with out them. If people want to rescue them then rescue, if you think they deserve a horrible death all good. The hostages are there to be played with just like a turtle if you want to look at them fine, be nice just as good however if you think they need to be slaughtered do it or if they get in the way of a legitimate kill that's the price they pay for not calling in sick that day.
If this upsets you call Rusty and he will deliver you a pizza don't forget to ask for the "special topping"
Love you all

[[DtK] [LM] Knight_Ops.]

Dude, I'm not sure why you needed to quote my entire obnoxiously long post instead of just a paragraph or two but it's done now.
I feel like I addressed all of the key points and issues concerning Hostages enabled on Office DM in my initial post, whilst offering my own attempts at constructive solutions and feedback to what I still believe to be a non existent dilemma.

I think to many people play ct to much and dislike this idea of removing kick limit because of it.

Play terrorist as much as i do and prevent rescue enough times resulting in kicks and you would want it removed to.

We are both biased Rusty in this regard because I predominately join CT's and you T's though I have joined T's 1,533 times as opposed to your joining Ct's 929 times.

I actually know more so than you and better than most of the consequence of killing too many Hostages as I'm currently the number 2 Hostage Killer on Office DM having done so 716 times vs your 354 and losing 10,740 points in the process. I can honestly say not a single one of them I killed on purpose and that they were mostly just me being reckless or landing a lucky nade.

As a Terrorist I will single out and take aim at a hostage rescuer. I avoid spraying everything down range when hostages are involved, alot of players do the same. That's how best to negate being kicked for killing too many hostages. It would make sense to me to disable the Auto Kick function if you got kicked for killing just one single hostage but as it currently stands you can kill all four of them in one fell swoop in a single round and will only be kicked for killing a 5th.

To be honest this isn't even a frequent enough occurrence on the sever to warrant any real scrutiny. Otherwise it would have been brought to bare and addressed earlier.

Players receive a clear warning for terminating hostages at the first instance and get to kill 5 of them before being auto-kicked.

Without an adequate penalty in place and enforced for killing hostages, it would essentially be the same as removing hostages from the server entirely for the reasons I previously stated. Players would eliminate the hostages in spawn with impunity at the start of every round closing off any possibility of a Rescued Hostage scenario.

I personally can't see what all the fuss it about over the hostages, who cares, I mean really...

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Anyway back to more important things, that sound and taste like chicken!
I want to see at least one random spawn (no clip) chicken running around on Office DM, OMG it would be so much win XD Hahahah. Oh,.. and if you kill da widdle chicken say 15-20 times in a game you get burned or beaconed so everyone knows your the chicken killer that's all.

Yes,... A random god damn chicken!

You know, things that matter...

[[DtK] [JA] squat]

The chicken isn't a bad idea except for nades, most of the time nades are pitched into or out of windows with no regard to what might be on the other side ( one of the consequences of no friendly fire) I can just see the poor chicken being exploded out of existence rather then being shot.

[RuStY]

Dude, I'm not sure why you needed to quote my entire obnoxiously long post instead of just a paragraph or two but it's done now.
I feel like I addressed all of the key points and issues concerning Hostages enabled on Office DM in my initial post, whilst offering my own attempts at constructive solutions and feedback to what I still believe to be a non existent dilemma.



We are both biased Rusty in this regard because I predominately join CT's and you T's though I have joined T's 1,533 times as opposed to your joining Ct's 929 times.

I actually know more so than you and better than most of the consequence of killing too many Hostages as I'm currently the number 2 Hostage Killer on Office DM having done so 716 times vs your 354 and losing 10,740 points in the process. I can honestly say not a single one of them I killed on purpose and that they were mostly just me being reckless or landing a lucky nade.

As a Terrorist I will single out and take aim at a hostage rescuer. I avoid spraying everything down range when hostages are involved, alot of players do the same. That's how best to negate being kicked for killing too many hostages. It would make sense to me to disable the Auto Kick function if you got kicked for killing just one single hostage but as it currently stands you can kill all four of them in one fell swoop in a single round and will only be kicked for killing a 5th.

To be honest this isn't even a frequent enough occurrence on the sever to warrant any real scrutiny. Otherwise it would have been brought to bare and addressed earlier.

Players receive a clear warning for terminating hostages at the first instance and get to kill 5 of them before being auto-kicked.

Without an adequate penalty in place and enforced for killing hostages, it would essentially be the same as removing hostages from the server entirely for the reasons I previously stated. Players would eliminate the hostages in spawn with impunity at the start of every round closing off any possibility of a Rescued Hostage scenario.

I personally can't see what all the fuss it about over the hostages, who cares, I mean really...

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Anyway back to more important things, that sound and taste like chicken!
I want to see at least one random spawn (no clip) chicken running around on Office DM, OMG it would be so much win XD Hahahah. Oh,.. and if you kill da widdle chicken say 15-20 times in a game you get burned or beaconed so everyone knows your the chicken killer that's all.

Yes,... A random god damn chicken!

You know, things that matter...

My play time on terrorist is not due to being biased.
Rather a needed balancing since jumpa ain't round to mop up.

Knight ops you seen it happen. Massive rage quits on a massive scale.

I usually play T and my opinions are as above. -shrugs-

Yes boss.

[Loki]

Leave the hostages alone.

Let people play how they want.

As I've said in the past, everyone gets enjoyment on your server differently.

Just coz the majority of players want a high KD ratio doesn't mean it's the aim for everyone.

Some players may enjoy the challenge of rescuing hostages (as CTs) or as Ts, stopping CTs from rescuing hostages (whether it means they kill the CT or all the hostages)

You can't expect everyone on the server to play exactly how you want. If that happened, then it'll just get boring.

Sorry to hear you missed out on a good final score and win Walkerboh. I don't see how it should be bothering you that much really. I don't think total # of wins or wins / # of games played ratio is recorded on the stats. There is no bonus points for winning the map also is there?

Prob a question for Knight who seems to be the quoting stats master here

[[DtK] [LM] Knight_Ops.]

There is no bonus points for winning the map also is there?

I going to say no that there are no additional points awarded for winning @ 110 kills, I'm not an authority on this but I'm pretty sure one will turn up if I get it wrong. There is however a separate score counter that appears at the end of the game displaying the number of games won by whom ever wins the game.

[[DtK] [LM] Knight_Ops.]

Rusty mate, your awesome dude I got mad respect for you. I hope you don't feel as though I'm having a go at you or WalkerBoh, I re-read over my posts with fresh eyes and thought my words could be interpreted as a little abrasive.

It's not my intention.

My play time on terrorist is not due to being biased.
Rather a needed balancing since jumpa ain't round to mop up.

What I stated before about the both of us being biased is quite true Rusty because I do enjoy playing predominantly as a CT and you do enjoy playing as a T. To suggest otherwise or imply that you don't like playing as a T and only join T's to "balance" out the teams is simply not true and you know it isn't.

I've witnessed you stack on T's just as many times as I've stacked on CT's. That's not how the game usually starts out but a few rounds in, sure as rain people cant take the punishment and leave whether for their own reasons or rage quitting.

You've joined T's 3837 times compared to joining CT's 929 times I know you enjoy playing T's not because you feel obliged to or because your trying to balance the teams out but because you actually prefer and enjoy it and it is in this regard that you and I are indeed biased my friend. Please do not Bullspit me.

I have accrued more playtime on the Office DM server than any other player ever, since it first came online. Thus I am passionate about significant changes being implemented on the server, and I feel as though the inadvertent or ill advised removal and or modification of hostages would be one such vast change.

I enjoy having hostages on the server, I don't feel as though I stand here alone. I honestly believe that the hostages on Office DM contribute to varied and dynamic game-play on the server and removing them would reduce that.

I know you only wanted to remove the Auto Kick function and not necessarily the hostages themselves but I cant envision this working the way it should.

"Without an adequate penalty in place and enforced for killing hostages, it would essentially be the same as removing hostages from the server"

I believe this to be true, because even now numerous players are not deterred and freely kill the hostages all the time losing points and getting kicked, a lot of players simply don't care, they rejoin and keep doing it until their nose starts to bleed.

Knight ops you seen it happen. Massive rage quits on a massive scale.

Rusty mate, you are the one who makes me want to join T's more but anytime I side with you very bad things happen and people die.

What I think could work but is almost impossible to implement (which is why I didn't suggest it earlier) would be if a player is auto kicked for killing all 4 hostages in a single round and the hostage kill kick limit is reset to 0 in the proceeding round, this way you could "accidentally" kill 3 hostages every single round without being kicked(admittedly this concept is not perfect and can be manipulated).
However the compromise is that if a player were to terminate all 4 hostages in a single rounds 4 minute window they would be kicked, this seems fair to me.

Another idea is no kick for hostage killers but an instant respawn for hostages.

Maybe Squall can do this to the server if people actually want a change and think it's fairer than the current setup. I have no idea what Squall is capable of but it is just a little too easy for me to sit here and make suggestions when I'm not the one who has to initiate or implement changes whilst trying to bend and manipulate the source engine to my will.

I would like to see further input and more constructive suggestions from other office players, to better guide us in finding a favorable solution to what I claim to be a flimsily perceived problem. Otherwise I say,... Drop your weapons including that bloody knife and step away from the hostages.

[[DtK] [V] Xplicid]

Can you like, do. TLDR? Jesus Christ...

[RuStY]

Rusty mate, your awesome dude I got mad respect for you. I hope you don't feel as though I'm having a go at you or WalkerBoh, I re-read over my posts with fresh eyes and thought my words could be interpreted as a little abrasive.

It's not my intention.

Woah slow down. We debating as frustrating as they can be.
Outside the debate everything is normal.

What I stated before about the both of us being biased is quite true Rusty because I do enjoy playing predominantly as a CT and you do enjoy playing as a T. To suggest otherwise or imply that you don't like playing as a T and only join T's to "balance" out the teams is simply not true and you know it isn't.

I've witnessed you stack on T's just as many times as I've stacked on CT's. That's not how the game usually starts out but a few rounds in, sure as rain people cant take the punishment and leave whether for their own reasons or rage quitting.

You've joined T's 3837 times compared to joining CT's 929 times I know you enjoy playing T's not because you feel obliged to or because your trying to balance the teams out but because you actually prefer and enjoy it and it is in this regard that you and I are indeed biased my friend. Please do not Bullspit me.

I have accrued more playtime on the Office DM server than any other player ever, since it first came online. Thus I am passionate about significant changes being implemented on the server, and I feel as though the inadvertent or ill advised removal and or modification of hostages would be one such vast change.

I enjoy having hostages on the server, I don't feel as though I stand here alone. I honestly believe that the hostages on Office DM contribute to varied and dynamic game-play on the server and removing them would reduce that.

I know you only wanted to remove the Auto Kick function and not necessarily the hostages themselves but I cant envision this working the way it should.

"Without an adequate penalty in place and enforced for killing hostages, it would essentially be the same as removing hostages from the server"

I believe this to be true, because even now numerous players are not deterred and freely kill the hostages all the time losing points and getting kicked, a lot of players simply don't care, they rejoin and keep doing it until their nose starts to bleed.



Rusty mate, you are the one who makes me want to join T's more but anytime I side with you very bad things happen and people die.

What I think could work but is almost impossible to implement (which is why I didn't suggest it earlier) would be if a player is auto kicked for killing all 4 hostages in a single round and the hostage kill kick limit is reset to 0 in the proceeding round, this way you could "accidentally" kill 3 hostages every single round without being kicked(admittedly this concept is not perfect and can be manipulated).
However the compromise is that if a player were to terminate all 4 hostages in a single rounds 4 minute window they would be kicked, this seems fair to me.

Another idea is no kick for hostage killers but an instant respawn for hostages.

Maybe Squall can do this to the server if people actually want a change and think it's fairer than the current setup. I have no idea what Squall is capable of but it is just a little too easy for me to sit here and make suggestions when I'm not the one who has to initiate or implement changes whilst trying to bend and manipulate the source engine to my will.

I would like to see further input and more constructive suggestions from other office players, to better guide us in finding a favorable solution to what I claim to be a flimsily perceived problem. Otherwise I say,... Drop your weapons including that bloody knife and step away from the hostages.

Lol not bullshitting you. We are on very separate pages when it comes to css.
When you have players like booboo, woodsteel and yourself.

If i didn't join Terrorist. Terrorist wouldn't have any players because all i hear is oh window camping.
And people do rage quit after a group of "skilled players" spawn kill from window.

I get raged at and told i can't window camp when i used to do it.
So now i play terrorist. If you, me, booboo, woodsteel and ace all sat at window or
at back with awp. lol.

Fact is ct has alot of advantages over terrorist and they don't have to fight for ground half the time.

Terrorists have to fight for all the ground they have to hold except for bathroom unless cts smash it with some awpers or a golden gunner.

Terrorists have enough disadvantages as it is from the get go. We don't need to be kicked after 5 hostage kills simply preventing rescue.


You know what. Why don't we implement a clock timer on the hostages being invulnerable. After a minute or 2 if you haven't been able to reach the hostages we should be able to murder them. And the clock is cancelled when a hostage is interacted with by a ct or each hostage has its own rescue clock before being murdered.

Possible to implement anyone?

[[DtK] [LM] Knight_Ops.]

Fact is ct has alot of advantages over terrorist and they don't have to fight for ground half the time.

I think your right Rusty, though mostly in regards to spawning locations for the Golden Gun (The Awp Vending machine is T sided and I'd speculate that is to offset the GG).
The Golden Gun should have more spawning locations that are not all CT orientated. This would help minimise continuous whoring by the same player usually a CT round after round.
It should spawn very close or even inside T spawn one round and vice versa the next round to be fairest or perhaps the GG could be placed inside a chicken so you have to go find and kill the chicken to accquire it.
Other than that if CT's "don't have to fight for ground half the time" than it stands to reason that the other half of said time that they most certainly do.

You know what. Why don't we implement a clock timer on the hostages being invulnerable. After a minute or 2 if you haven't been able to reach the hostages we should be able to murder them. And the clock is cancelled when a hostage is interacted with by a ct or each hostage has its own rescue clock before being murdered.
Possible to implement anyone?

This sounds like a good idea.

I also propose another option (possibly one easier to implement) is to have no kick for killing a hostage but an instant respawn for hostages back where they start off in T spawn.

Dose this work?

[RuStY]

Other than that if CT's "don't have to fight for ground half the time" than it stands to reason that the other half of said time that they most certainly do.

Only when terrorists make a push.
After that it's a holding stance for as long as possible.

I also propose another option (possibly one easier to implement) is to have no kick for killing a hostage but an instant respawn for hostages back where they start off in T spawn.

Dose this work?

Yeah maybe if they are killed before a certain time limit they can be constantly respawned until said time limit is reached?

[Xbob]

I agree the hosties should be removed.